#1
When a city is dominated by one industry, particularly finance, that can spell ruin for its inhabitants. Good for the wealthy and the people in the industry, mediocre for many others. Tech might smooth things out a bit, but there is no reason we need to give anything to a behemoth for coming here. Many are already make NYC home.
Although not the only one, NYC has some of the best universities, many top-tier companies, pools of talented people, and the best cultural amenities. There was no reason to kowtow to a behemoth to come here. NYC is big and innovative, and it will stay big and innovative for the foreseeable future. Tech was here before and will it be here after, without being dominated by a single company.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/technology/nyc-tech-startups.html?comments#permid=30741436
#2
Why we would we want to be a tech town or any kind of single-industry town? Why would we want to trade one harmful kind of industry, finance, for an equally bad industry, technology? Look at towns dominated by tech. They might be good for some of the inhabitants, the ones with more than enough money to live there, problematic for many in their own industry, and terrible for those in the lesser classes.
NYC's history is built on business, and tech serving industry is the model that seems to make sense. Technology serves finance, medicine, media, and IT, and that seems to be the distinctive flavor of NY, not the other way around. Even if it were, so what! NYC will survive, and likely even thrive, for the foreseeable future, as long as it doesn't get flooded...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/technology/nyc-tech-startups.html?comments#permid=30741657
#3
@Gordon - And I live in Manhattan, have a 15-minute walk to work each morning, live with my spouse overlooking a block-size manicured park, take long walks along the streets and through parks, visit museums each weekend, and have fabulous dinners. So what.
Yes, the subways are terrible, but Amazon wouldn't fix that. It would have made it worse. Also, the idea that better wireless is going to transform anything, except for a few, particularly those in the industry, is naive. I work from home one day a week and starting next month, 2 days, but I also enjoy my walks in the morning, so don't mind going into an office.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/technology/nyc-tech-startups.html?comments#permid=30741436:30741583:30741793
#4
Although several posters have mentioned how tech can free us from location, i.e, working remotely, collaboration software, cloud-based technology, it runs counter to something mentioned by others, that industries tend to pool by location, and that innovation might require localized concentrations of talent. I've read different accounts for high-level innovation, academic ones pointing to the necessity of geographic closeness, or more informal ones discussing high-level mathematics work coming from dispersed, punctuated correspondence, but in the end, this is about business, taxes, and human welfare. The arguments for jobs or innovation don't seem to consider the human costs, or only consider one side of it. People-oriented arguments tend to dismiss the necessity of having a behemoth in our midst. NYC has no lack of talent, and a seemingly diverse set, finance, technology, medical, and media.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/technology/nyc-tech-startups.html?comments#permid=30743314
#5
@Tara -
Luddite here (see below). I think you have it backward. The Amazon deal was fought by liberals, likely some of the more educated of NYC. Many New Yorkers might have wanted Amazon, but I doubt it is because they are tech-savvy. Far from it. The strongest proponents were the least educated, those hoping for service jobs. For me, the issue was about equity, the subways, gentrification, and tax giveaways.
My father was drafted from college in the '50s and worked for the military during the Korean War as a card operator, then later for IBM and Honeywell. He died young. I learned binary at 8, then BASIC, COBOL, and PL/I in the '80s, later PC/Server support, and then project management when languages were VB and servers ran NetWare. Went to school for an MBA, studying finance and IT. I just left the financial industry after 25 years to work for a major cancer center as a senior software developer, mostly in the Microsoft stack, .NET (C#/VB.NET), JavaScript, SQL Server, REST service, WPF.
In the end, the deal should have been better for NY. Cuomo and de Blasio gave away too much and voided any local input and decision-making. Google and Facebook are here without subsidies, and even make accommodations to local industry. Yes, NYC is open for business, then Amazon can enter it like any other...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/technology/nyc-tech-startups.html?comments#permid=30741918:30743748
#6
@Middleman MD - Would definitely disagree. If Amazon was coming for tech talent, the highest number of software developers and related roles reside in Richmond Hills, Williamsburg, and Murray Hill. By density, it is Murray Hill to Through Midtown East. One can quibble over the best location, but if the need is for talent, then the central area for all of this is LIC.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/technology/nyc-tech-startups.html?comments#permid=30742454:30744669
#7
@Bob S - Maybe you should read Dispelling Myths: What H1B Visa Workers Are Really Paid by Dr. Andrew Chamberlain on the Glassdoor blog. You might find it illuminating, and to be fair, this might support some of your reasoning, but on balance, I doubt your opinion is justifiably so lopsided...
Quote #1
The bottom line: Across the 10 cities and roughly 100 jobs we examined, salaries for foreign H1B workers are about 2.8 percent higher than comparable U.S. salaries on Glassdoor. While it may be true that an influx of H1B workers in the 1990s hurt computer science wages, there’s no evidence in the data on Glassdoor that H1B workers today represent a source of “cheap” labor paid any lower than comparable U.S. workers.
Quote #2 (this partially supports your point)
For example, among software engineers, H1B workers earned less than or equal to U.S. workers in every city we examined, ranging from equal median salaries in Seattle to -17 percent less in Chicago. Similarly, H1B salaries for programmer analysts were lower in nine of the 10 cities we examined, ranging from -1 percent in Atlanta to -28 percent in Chicago and Washington, D.C. (H1B pay for programmer analysts was 7 percent higher in one city: Philadelphia).
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/technology/nyc-tech-startups.html?comments#permid=30752131:30752636
When a city is dominated by one industry, particularly finance, that can spell ruin for its inhabitants. Good for the wealthy and the people in the industry, mediocre for many others. Tech might smooth things out a bit, but there is no reason we need to give anything to a behemoth for coming here. Many are already make NYC home.
Although not the only one, NYC has some of the best universities, many top-tier companies, pools of talented people, and the best cultural amenities. There was no reason to kowtow to a behemoth to come here. NYC is big and innovative, and it will stay big and innovative for the foreseeable future. Tech was here before and will it be here after, without being dominated by a single company.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/technology/nyc-tech-startups.html?comments#permid=30741436
#2
Why we would we want to be a tech town or any kind of single-industry town? Why would we want to trade one harmful kind of industry, finance, for an equally bad industry, technology? Look at towns dominated by tech. They might be good for some of the inhabitants, the ones with more than enough money to live there, problematic for many in their own industry, and terrible for those in the lesser classes.
NYC's history is built on business, and tech serving industry is the model that seems to make sense. Technology serves finance, medicine, media, and IT, and that seems to be the distinctive flavor of NY, not the other way around. Even if it were, so what! NYC will survive, and likely even thrive, for the foreseeable future, as long as it doesn't get flooded...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/technology/nyc-tech-startups.html?comments#permid=30741657
#3
@Gordon - And I live in Manhattan, have a 15-minute walk to work each morning, live with my spouse overlooking a block-size manicured park, take long walks along the streets and through parks, visit museums each weekend, and have fabulous dinners. So what.
Yes, the subways are terrible, but Amazon wouldn't fix that. It would have made it worse. Also, the idea that better wireless is going to transform anything, except for a few, particularly those in the industry, is naive. I work from home one day a week and starting next month, 2 days, but I also enjoy my walks in the morning, so don't mind going into an office.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/technology/nyc-tech-startups.html?comments#permid=30741436:30741583:30741793
#4
Although several posters have mentioned how tech can free us from location, i.e, working remotely, collaboration software, cloud-based technology, it runs counter to something mentioned by others, that industries tend to pool by location, and that innovation might require localized concentrations of talent. I've read different accounts for high-level innovation, academic ones pointing to the necessity of geographic closeness, or more informal ones discussing high-level mathematics work coming from dispersed, punctuated correspondence, but in the end, this is about business, taxes, and human welfare. The arguments for jobs or innovation don't seem to consider the human costs, or only consider one side of it. People-oriented arguments tend to dismiss the necessity of having a behemoth in our midst. NYC has no lack of talent, and a seemingly diverse set, finance, technology, medical, and media.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/technology/nyc-tech-startups.html?comments#permid=30743314
#5
@Tara -
Luddite here (see below). I think you have it backward. The Amazon deal was fought by liberals, likely some of the more educated of NYC. Many New Yorkers might have wanted Amazon, but I doubt it is because they are tech-savvy. Far from it. The strongest proponents were the least educated, those hoping for service jobs. For me, the issue was about equity, the subways, gentrification, and tax giveaways.
My father was drafted from college in the '50s and worked for the military during the Korean War as a card operator, then later for IBM and Honeywell. He died young. I learned binary at 8, then BASIC, COBOL, and PL/I in the '80s, later PC/Server support, and then project management when languages were VB and servers ran NetWare. Went to school for an MBA, studying finance and IT. I just left the financial industry after 25 years to work for a major cancer center as a senior software developer, mostly in the Microsoft stack, .NET (C#/VB.NET), JavaScript, SQL Server, REST service, WPF.
In the end, the deal should have been better for NY. Cuomo and de Blasio gave away too much and voided any local input and decision-making. Google and Facebook are here without subsidies, and even make accommodations to local industry. Yes, NYC is open for business, then Amazon can enter it like any other...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/technology/nyc-tech-startups.html?comments#permid=30741918:30743748
#6
@Middleman MD - Would definitely disagree. If Amazon was coming for tech talent, the highest number of software developers and related roles reside in Richmond Hills, Williamsburg, and Murray Hill. By density, it is Murray Hill to Through Midtown East. One can quibble over the best location, but if the need is for talent, then the central area for all of this is LIC.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/technology/nyc-tech-startups.html?comments#permid=30742454:30744669
#7
@Bob S - Maybe you should read Dispelling Myths: What H1B Visa Workers Are Really Paid by Dr. Andrew Chamberlain on the Glassdoor blog. You might find it illuminating, and to be fair, this might support some of your reasoning, but on balance, I doubt your opinion is justifiably so lopsided...
Quote #1
The bottom line: Across the 10 cities and roughly 100 jobs we examined, salaries for foreign H1B workers are about 2.8 percent higher than comparable U.S. salaries on Glassdoor. While it may be true that an influx of H1B workers in the 1990s hurt computer science wages, there’s no evidence in the data on Glassdoor that H1B workers today represent a source of “cheap” labor paid any lower than comparable U.S. workers.
Quote #2 (this partially supports your point)
For example, among software engineers, H1B workers earned less than or equal to U.S. workers in every city we examined, ranging from equal median salaries in Seattle to -17 percent less in Chicago. Similarly, H1B salaries for programmer analysts were lower in nine of the 10 cities we examined, ranging from -1 percent in Atlanta to -28 percent in Chicago and Washington, D.C. (H1B pay for programmer analysts was 7 percent higher in one city: Philadelphia).
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/22/technology/nyc-tech-startups.html?comments#permid=30752131:30752636
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